Some clarifications on calls OLD

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Ben
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Re: Some clarifications on calls

Postby Ben » Sat Feb 22, 2014 7:08 pm

29 skill person puts up Shield 4 (13% of their essence) and meds it back in 40 minutes.
59 skill person puts up Shield 8 (13% of their essence) and meds it back in 40 minutes
119 skill person puts up Shield 16 (13% of their essence) and meds it back in 40 minutes
300 skill person puts up Shield 20 (7% of their essence) and meds it back in 40 minutes

Pure Shard removes all of these so it sort of scales.

Knowing there's a Pure Sharder wandering about, do you put up Shield 20 at the start of the day or do you put up Shield 10 (or even lower) several times during the day? It's a consideration.
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Re: Some clarifications on calls

Postby Rebecca » Sat Feb 22, 2014 7:26 pm

Gn, I guess...

IMO there's still a problem with pureshard making any Mage character however intelligently built completely powerless (chances are they won't even have time to run if they get hit once). And in pvp pureshard is pretty much an instakill vs a Mage.
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Re: Some clarifications on calls

Postby Stevie » Sat Feb 22, 2014 7:33 pm

Pure Shard does scale, but typically mages base locations won't. The first extra hit costing usually around 6/7 and scaling exponentially. I mean, we recently changed the way mage shields worked because there was a general feeling they were under-powered (I think I disagreed, but neither here nor there) with this Pure Shard clarification, we're essentially telling mages "You must blow a significant proportion of your skill outside of your key attributes, or you die."

At bare minimum a Pure Shard blow will do a single point of damage. So on the low end of the system we have Maurice Mage-alot... for him to even live up to his namesake he's going to probably want a Sphere of Magic. That first Sphere costs him (5) whole skill. Now, starting at (10) skill, he doesn't really have enough to buy the first set of extra hits. I guess he's got a shield up and maybe best case scenario a Rockskin/Invigorate but they go down immediately, and so does he.

Many mourned for Maurice Mage-alot, misunderstood magical mastermind mercilessly massacred by the massively malevolent mage murdering douchebag-stick known as Pure Shard. Meanwhile...

Anthony Arcanist has somehow survived to grand old age of 119 skill, he's at the very top end of the 120 Threshold, he's like a god to those 61 skill peons. Anyway, at 120 skill stuff starts hitting hard, but not to worry Anthony has invested some of his hard earned skill into MAGIC!! He actually has quite a bit of it. The 5 Circles in fire cost him a bountiful (35) Skill. In between, he's probably picked up some circles in Meta (4@26) and some sense power/meditate etc. Now I don't think it's unreasonable to assume things are going to call Quad at (120) skill, in fact I'd be surprised if they didn't. For Anthony to survive a Pure Shard Quad, he'd have to by 4 Extra Hits, at (6+7+8+9 = 30 Skill). This is 25% of his skill, in an unfavorable mod, for the sole purpose of being able to survive just *one* blow. Yup, he's fucked if he takes another one, but luckily he can quickly.. oh.. what.. no casting for 30 seconds.. well.. um.. Better run Anthony!!

And so... Anthony Arcanist abruptly advocated his attendance amongst alive allies and actualised an amorous affair with the ground.


Basically, Pure Shard has no reasonable counterplay. It's an unforgiving call which allows little scope for maneuverability. It completely shuts down a caster. No other single effect in game, shuts down any other archetype as hard.


The Essence-Drain suggestion, still remains a strong balancing solution.
Last edited by Stevie on Sat Feb 22, 2014 7:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Some clarifications on calls

Postby Thom » Sat Feb 22, 2014 7:35 pm

I think Pete is right. It's anti-magic metal. It should be anti-magic.

The only thing I do worry about is inappropriate monstering- I can see several situations in which a frustrated monster set with a pure shard weapon will sprint past the line of warriors, scouts and other non-essence users to lay into the Mage who sensibly stayed at the very back but has been fire bolting the monster all day and he's sick of it so die mage die hah not so clever now! I bet you wish you bought SSD/extra hits/ a snapcastable shifting spell/ heroic leap/ lightweight armour/ battle caster/ Shield Prof/ a pair of legs so that you could run away!

But then, that's an issue with bad monstering/reffing, which on the whole I don't feel we have.

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Re: Some clarifications on calls

Postby Ben » Sat Feb 22, 2014 7:55 pm

Pure Shard does scale, but typically mages base locations won't. The first extra hit costing usually around 6/7 and scaling exponentially.


Is it exponential growth? I think it's linear.

A mage can put 30 skill and get 4 extra hits. You might say "wow, 30 skill" but a warrior will still pay about 20 for the same thing. So the feeling is that a warrior is more likely to need those extra hits but surely a mage only doesn't need them because usually he has magical shields. A warrior shouldn't 'need' those hits because usually he has armour, he buys extra hits for when that armour fails him: the mage should do the same for shields. Personally, I think putting a point into extra loc or dex per threshold isn't a bad idea for any class.

It completely shuts down a caster. No other single effect in game, shuts down any other archetype as hard.


"Through" for a warrior would be the closest.

What if the first hit from Pure Shard hits destroys any spells you have up. Only if you have no spells up do you take the damage attached?
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Re: Some clarifications on calls

Postby Thom » Sat Feb 22, 2014 7:58 pm

Ben wrote:
What if the first hit from Pure Shard hits destroys any spells you have up. Only if you have no spells up do you take the damage attached?


This is an interesting Idea. I'd also suggest you can still use essence because the blow was mitigated by the shields

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Re: Some clarifications on calls

Postby Stevie » Sat Feb 22, 2014 8:17 pm

Ben wrote:
Pure Shard does scale, but typically mages base locations won't. The first extra hit costing usually around 6/7 and scaling exponentially.


Is it exponential growth? I think it's linear.


Wow. I suck at stats.

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Re: Some clarifications on calls

Postby Ben » Sat Feb 22, 2014 9:02 pm

Wow. I suck at stats.


I don't know. I *think* exponential growth would be if if cost 6 then 7 then 9 then 12 then 16 and would be a curve if shown on a graph. Not entirely sure though.
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Re: Some clarifications on calls

Postby Will » Sat Feb 22, 2014 9:07 pm

Stevie just wants 1000 posts :)
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Re: Some clarifications on calls

Postby Stevie » Sat Feb 22, 2014 9:22 pm

No I don't.

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Re: Some clarifications on calls

Postby Ben » Sat Feb 22, 2014 9:23 pm

Yeah you do
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Re: Some clarifications on calls

Postby Stevie » Sat Feb 22, 2014 9:25 pm

I just want Pure Shard nerfed..

Or a special anti-PS hilt so I can be as OP as everyone else and use it too. Heck, if I had and was able to use PS I would've been defending it all this thread, we would've had consensus 3 pages ago.

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Re: Some clarifications on calls

Postby Dom » Sat Feb 22, 2014 9:36 pm


What if the first hit from Pure Shard hits destroys any spells you have up. Only if you have no spells up do you take the damage attached?


I was thinking exactly this while reading.

If you have any sheilds/spells up it takes them out but you take no damage from the blow. It still nocks out the essence for 30 secconds.
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Re: Some clarifications on calls

Postby Stevie » Sat Feb 22, 2014 10:04 pm

I think that's not a bad compromise.

How do we feel about unique abilities that grant a Pure Shard blow. Stuff that's tailored like Essence Strike, cause I know we had a few calls like that back when null existed. Does this apply?

Discarding the Pure Shard makes you instantly vulnerable to negative effects but you remain unable to use essence and immune to positive effects for 5 minutes.


So if you use "Spell-effect-previously-known-as-null" would you suffer the negative effects as if you were using a PS weapon.




While I'm at it I'll link some of my earlier questions that might still apply for quick referencing.

Stevie wrote:
1.) Can they use Chi whilst wielding PS?
2.) Are Buffs granted by Chi dispelled via a PS weapon (I assume yes, but can't hurt to have full clarification.)
3.) A Pure Shard wielder cannot use Essence, what happens to spells active on them whilst holding/wielding PS.
4.) Fey/Elves are hurt by contact with PS. What if the grip was made from a different metal, and only a PS blade? Could they wield it (suffering the no essence restriction ofc).

Pure Shard about your person you cannot use essence and you are immune to all essence used on you.


5.) Does about your person refer to Locs. So if I had a PS chestplate, I wouldn't take effect from Strikes. What about a Halt, which doesn't specifically target?
6.) Is a weapon considered "enough" PS about your person?

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Re: Some clarifications on calls

Postby Hatsuo1980 » Sat Feb 22, 2014 10:53 pm

1.) Can they use Chi whilst wielding PS?

Chi is not essence, it's Chi.

2.) Are Buffs granted by Chi dispelled via a PS weapon (I assume yes, but can't hurt to have full clarification.)

"Buffs" would not be. Spells powered by Chi are still spells. Spells powered by Soul (Sorcerer) are still spells. Pure Shard removes spells. It doesn't specify the source so I would say yes.

3.) A Pure Shard wielder cannot use Essence, what happens to spells active on them whilst holding/wielding PS.

They should be ineffective for the duration that the negative Pure Shard effects are active upon them (5 minutes for exposed contact). I would say they are dispelled, as per being hit, but I'm harsh :)

4.) Fey/Elves are hurt by contact with PS. What if the grip was made from a different metal, and only a PS blade? Could they wield it (suffering the no essence restriction ofc).

Common sense and rule 7? Of course it makes no difference what the grip is made out of

5.) Does about your person refer to Locs. So if I had a PS chestplate, I wouldn't take effect from Strikes. What about a Halt, which doesn't specifically target?

If you are carrying it, you are effected by it.

6.) Is a weapon considered "enough" PS about your person?

Yes. Look at the Pure Heart, they had an Amulet and that made most of them immune to magic.
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