Serkanians

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Luke
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Re: Serkanians

Postby Luke » Thu Oct 31, 2013 3:03 pm

Okay well by the absolute letter of the rules a boring shaded doth make. As no-one is that completely mindless nor stat-hungry I really don't see it as a problem. It's common sense, if you feel like, for roleplay reasons playing an unarmed fighter with a special sword then do it. If those are the styles you enjoy then it is the class for you. If it isn't then don't play one, I don't think they are underpowered or overpowered.

As for backstab, sure if you want to play a backstabbing absent blade go for it, to me that's unbelievably against what they would do, but go for it.

Serkanians are flavour not stats. Two handed weapons are totally shit in combat, you get hit a fuck load and a shield is better, but, for example, I love playing a furious blade because it's class set up allows me to do cool shit with a big sword. It isn't streamlined, or powerful, it's just fun.

Shaded blade allows you to combine the parries and sword, probably the two most iconic parts of Serkanians and use them BOTH with relative impunity.

Sure you COULD play an absent blade and be better at fighting, but then you don't get a sword, and swords are cool.
Warryn Coshwood - Diamond Elf Paladin of Gerethenax
Ten Tigers - Serkanian Furious Blade
Ishan-bey - Kor Sorcerer

Luke
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Re: Serkanians

Postby Luke » Thu Oct 31, 2013 3:06 pm

I agree with what you are saying about the new rules, they could use tightening up, but I think it's better to playtest them and get them going and then shore it up later. It's basically a trust system. We are being trusted not to be total dickheads with the stats and restrictions, and to be honest I'm reluctant to change anything until my event is done. Because I am hoping that everyone will put in extra special effort and roleplay it so wwell that new restrictions and 'feels' for the classes will happen.

I already want to rewrite the furious blade code to fit the roleplay I think fits better. Namely, that you don't respect demons, you fight for your sword and your island, and you don't accept magic as a solution to problems.
Warryn Coshwood - Diamond Elf Paladin of Gerethenax
Ten Tigers - Serkanian Furious Blade
Ishan-bey - Kor Sorcerer

Hatsuo1980
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Re: Serkanians

Postby Hatsuo1980 » Thu Oct 31, 2013 3:10 pm

It just feels like you are talking from a perspective of someone who is used to the previous rules.

The mind set you describe works for an established HoP player, it doesn't for someone new to HoP or Larp in general.

Also, we have rules in a certain format for a reason, right? Any reason not to stick to that?
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Luke
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Re: Serkanians

Postby Luke » Thu Oct 31, 2013 3:14 pm

Because we nagged and rushed the release as we (mostly Edd and I) wanted to play them and playtest them. By adding in untested, unagreed rules we weaken the whole canon and flavour. New HoP players can't play Serkanians. I'm not saying it's an excuse not to be approachable but I think it's better to have a tried and tested and established ruleset, and THEN shore it up in a decent format than have a decently formatted fiasco which is constantly being editted.
Warryn Coshwood - Diamond Elf Paladin of Gerethenax
Ten Tigers - Serkanian Furious Blade
Ishan-bey - Kor Sorcerer

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Re: Serkanians

Postby Hatsuo1980 » Thu Oct 31, 2013 3:17 pm

Because we nagged and rushed the release as we (mostly Edd and I) wanted to play them and playtest them.


What was wrong with the ruleset that was on the forums?

By adding in untested, unagreed rules we weaken the whole canon and flavour. New HoP players can't play Serkanians.


They only have to monsters, what, twice to be able to?

I'm not saying it's an excuse not to be approachable but I think it's better to have a tried and tested and established ruleset, and THEN shore it up in a decent format than have a decently formatted fiasco which is constantly being editted.


By formatting I meant armour limits, magic limits, ability modifiers. These things can be essential to playing a character.
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Luke
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Re: Serkanians

Postby Luke » Thu Oct 31, 2013 3:33 pm

Yeah I count that as formatting. And yeah they can be essential. But the player base is small enough that people can just ask Ben or whoever.

I don't really understand the problem. Anyone planning to play a serkanian should be pretty vocal about it and the group can help them build their character. Not least because if they come up with some pseudo-racist bullshit, they aren't playing the April event. I just feel that they are an undefined, mouldable element to pargon and their appeal is in how raw they are. If you wanna play a full plate absent blade then you are doing it wrong. You'll know how much armour to wear when you wear it and see how good or bad your costume is. It's the same with weapon restrictions, play a samurai with a mace and you suck. But play a mongolian barbarian with a mace and it completely works.

Just go with the flow man :P
Warryn Coshwood - Diamond Elf Paladin of Gerethenax
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Ishan-bey - Kor Sorcerer

Hatsuo1980
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Re: Serkanians

Postby Hatsuo1980 » Thu Oct 31, 2013 3:39 pm

I think had this been stated originally (or was and I missed it lol) it might be somewhat more understandable :P
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Luke
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Re: Serkanians

Postby Luke » Thu Oct 31, 2013 3:41 pm

Where's the fun in that?

#refdick
Warryn Coshwood - Diamond Elf Paladin of Gerethenax
Ten Tigers - Serkanian Furious Blade
Ishan-bey - Kor Sorcerer

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Ben
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Re: Serkanians

Postby Ben » Sat Nov 02, 2013 9:24 pm

Yeah, was rushed. Is missing some stuff. Will sort it.

Happy to add stuff, happy to balance stuff: I guess there will always be people who feel that Scout/Warrior is always the best fighter option because of the -2 (maybe it is) however some people still play other classes: I guess we have to make those other classes more attractive.
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Thom
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Re: Serkanians

Postby Thom » Sun Nov 17, 2013 5:19 pm

Can I make an argument for making Tiger Clan and Shaded Blades Stealth based with Martial second rather than Martial based with Stealth second?

Well, I say an argument...
In my mind a Shaded Blade is a Stealth based Warrior, rather than a Silent Blade being a Stealth based Scout or a Furious Blade being a Martial based Warrior. I agree with the argument that playing an Absent Blade with a sword will result in a better Shaded Blade than playing a Shaded Blade will. With the change to Forearm and Forleg Parry, survivability is going to be an issue for a Shaded Blade- Either they suit up in lots of armour (Like a Furious Blade would, but unlike a Furious Blade will have to take a lot of damage when using their primary method of combat, Unarmed, as they can't parry) or they wear maximum armour allowed by FAP/FLP and stock up on hits. The third option would be to make their mods +0, -1, +1 for both race and class to allow them to stock up on Dex, while still being able to wear maximum FAP armour and parry.

This would not only make them stronger during the "day-to-day" of Shaded Blading (ie not an honour duel or in-over-your-head-odds) as their UAC would benefit from the Dex and their survivability would benefit from it, but it would also make their Class feature stronger. Currently, spending 3 Skill on UAC also gives them 4/3 Skill worth of 2/1 handed sword prof. Changing their mods to stealth would give them 3 skill on UAC and 6/3 Skill on 2/1 handed sword prof.

A Furious Blade still gets his Sword Profs cheaper, and he can also buy strength cheaper, so the Shaded Blade is still not the ideal choice for someone wanting to play a sword wielding Samurai- This is a good thing as it means the Shaded Blade is not replacing an existing class, only cementing itself in its niche.

Absent Blade is for people who want to play monks, Furious Blade is for people who want to play Samurai, and Shaded Blade is for the in-between. The only issue I can really see is that Absent Blades will become more of a passive role because you might as well play a monk and have a sword rather than just play a monk, but Absent Blades have useful class abilities so this may balance that out. However, what I feel it will mean is Dragon Shaded Blades and Tiger Absent Blades will become viable options.

Making Martial a +0 modifier will result in more expensive Strength to buff their sword with, but the bonus of the weapon being 2 handed should make this a worthwhile trade-off (1 rank of UAC without Dex or strength would normally be of no benefit, except it will also count as a rank in 2H Sword, giving a +1 or +2 Damage grade bonus to the weapon- You'd need two ranks of Dex and another rank of UAC before you need to buy a grade of strength the keep your sword stronger than your unarmed)

That's my suggestion of why we should make this change.

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Ben
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Re: Serkanians

Postby Ben » Sun Nov 17, 2013 8:23 pm

That's cool, what do other people think?

-1 to martial was to make it possible to use their sword either 1 or 2 handed. How about we say they can use dexterity to affect their 2 handed damage?

If we change Tiger Clan to 0, -1, +1 I'd be tempted to change Scorpion Clan to +1, -1, 0 so that there's some difference.
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Luke
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Re: Serkanians

Postby Luke » Sun Nov 17, 2013 8:52 pm

Yep I pretty much figured this would happen anyway. I always found shaded and furious too similar, may aswell see how it affects the meta. Does it make one much stronger than the other?

On a side note, can I keep ten tigers as he is? ;)
Warryn Coshwood - Diamond Elf Paladin of Gerethenax
Ten Tigers - Serkanian Furious Blade
Ishan-bey - Kor Sorcerer

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Ben
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Re: Serkanians

Postby Ben » Sun Nov 17, 2013 9:08 pm

On a side note, can I keep ten tigers as he is? ;)


Sure. When it's something minor like this people can keep existing characters as they are.
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Will
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Re: Serkanians

Postby Will » Sun Nov 17, 2013 9:49 pm

Just let me know specifically when things are settled on so I can update the database :)
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Ben
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Re: Serkanians

Postby Ben » Sun Nov 17, 2013 10:57 pm

Will do: will leave it for a couple of days to see if there are any objections from Andy
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