Monsters and Fighting

A general place for you to discuss Heart of Pargon and ask the team any questions that you have about anything. Upcoming events will be listed here.

Moderators: Ref, Senior Refs

User avatar
Peter Levy
Posts: 1011
Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2009 5:52 pm
Contact:

Re: Monsters and Fighting

Postby Peter Levy » Wed May 14, 2014 7:19 pm

i don't think it's a problem of the game system. monsters are given hits, this is how many hits they have. that should never be a problem.


of all the things said so far in this post, this is my favourite:

Luke wrote:[Sonny] ended up dying from taking damage, which, to be honest, seemed a bit rubbish. After the event we talked about it and I said that if he's being awesome, he shouldn't take damage that realistically isn't going to do anything (if you have grabbed an enemy in a bear hug, they can't unarmed combat you to death despite yelling quad at the top of their voice). Sonny wanted to unique this. Edd and I suggested he just cheat instead.


it's not cheating, it's reasonable. not even a real sword will realistically hurt you if it's swung four inches from the wrist.

the other part of this thread i've enjoyed, and couldn't agree enough with is:

willmhudson wrote:The players are of a very high standard. One of my favourite events ever was the HoP excursion to Alone. With no restrictions you guys really shone. It was great to be a part of.

stats don't facilitate roleplay. but damage grades, armour, DRs, etc all make it possible for a normal rubbish human like you or me to make it look like you're doing something awesome, such as taking a massive swing at a foe and chopping them in two.

i'd leave it to the judgement of the person getting hit to say whether the blow was worthy of the 'Ten' that was shouted with it. i'm gonna go out on a probably unpopular limb and say i'd blame the player, not the game. if you feel that people aren't making combat as cool as we want it to be, tell them off. the idea of one blow per second is there to limit shit combat. (i'd like to slightly tweak it to one swing per second as well)


yes i'm defending stats. suck my balls.
Señor Ref

User avatar
Will
Over 9000!!!!
Posts: 9650
Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 3:51 pm
Location: Exeter, Velmaneth, Azeroth, The Three Kingdoms, Labyrinthia...
Contact:

Re: Monsters and Fighting

Postby Will » Wed May 14, 2014 8:08 pm

My idea was (and warning, this is by no means a complete idea, and I fully appreciate that it is not a simple matter of casually slipping the change in and that it might take a lot of looking at) thus:

I dislike watching Heart of Pargon fighting atm. Very high damage grades get thrown around which the hits system is just not built to cope with. It works in labyrinthe because of the the vast amount of damage reductions and what have you, but we currently have a system that has Labyrinthe damage grades and Shadow Realms hits.

What tends to happen is that someone (notably Andy Bucknell last event) goes wading in calling a high damage grade and the monsters by and large take "an amount of damage that makes sure the fight is cool not trivial". Which I'm totally in support of. Fights should be cool. Everyone dying instantly to one character whilst the rest sort of hang around wondering why they're there is not...

So to me, the solution was to scale back damage massively without scaling back hits. Fights would be longer and more epic. People would feel more able to fight heroically because they're not going to get destroyed in half a second. And this is how I would do it.

Dexterity and Strength no longer increase damage. As skills they might be made cheaper as a result, strength more so than dexterity.

Weapon proficiencies now grant once per encounter abilities. So 3 weapon profs in one hand mace would give you 3 uses of stun per fight. That's per fight, not per as long as it takes before you can step away for 2 minutes. This would need some working out.

The only things that add to damage now are:

Backstab (which should also now only apply to the first blow of combat, perhaps reset by 2 mins out).

+ 1 from hand and a half weapons, + 2 from proper two handed. Would still need at least one prof in that weapon to benefit.

Marksman bonus so archers are still awesome

Elemental enhancement spells: They are currently massively underused, and this could make them massively over powered. So maybe change them so circle 1 is + 0, circle 3 is + 1 and circle 5 is + 2. Meh.

Class abilities: Those classes that grant + 1 damage now become a lot tougher, which will help in some cases where those classes are under powered, but might need rethinking in other classes.

Damage focus: An underused ability. Now with added win.

Not staff, take away their + 1.

I originally said no stacking, but... possibly backstab only with daggers.

Darts/bolts/strikes etc become more effective because of this shift.

DRs no longer cancel singles, so one point is always inflicted.

NO MORE WORRYING ABOUT MAX DAMAGE AND AMD!!!

Basically, the game shifts away from the number you are calling to how cooly/what abilities you are using it with.

I say this having played... a lot of LARP. In a lot of games. A lot of non standards would need to be looked at probably, and it wont be click your fingers and sorted.

But... I think that above is awesome.

I also love the idea of setting up an official downtime system.
Saga 2015 will be entirely celebrating and drinking with nothing bad happening and no bad guys showing up at all ever

Luke
Posts: 1622
Joined: Sat May 16, 2009 5:26 pm

Re: Monsters and Fighting

Postby Luke » Wed May 14, 2014 8:14 pm

Enter the giant animal, two handed sword wielding mage ;)

I think it's a great idea, and I say this while playing a character entirely built around damage grades. :)
Warryn Coshwood - Diamond Elf Paladin of Gerethenax
Ten Tigers - Serkanian Furious Blade
Ishan-bey - Kor Sorcerer

User avatar
Will
Over 9000!!!!
Posts: 9650
Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 3:51 pm
Location: Exeter, Velmaneth, Azeroth, The Three Kingdoms, Labyrinthia...
Contact:

Re: Monsters and Fighting

Postby Will » Wed May 14, 2014 8:16 pm

Well yes, obviously some thinking would need to be done in terms of stopping silliness like that happening... :)
Saga 2015 will be entirely celebrating and drinking with nothing bad happening and no bad guys showing up at all ever

User avatar
Will
Over 9000!!!!
Posts: 9650
Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 3:51 pm
Location: Exeter, Velmaneth, Azeroth, The Three Kingdoms, Labyrinthia...
Contact:

Re: Monsters and Fighting

Postby Will » Wed May 14, 2014 8:17 pm

The thing about "nerfs" is that they're not "nerfs" if they affect everyone equally...
Saga 2015 will be entirely celebrating and drinking with nothing bad happening and no bad guys showing up at all ever

User avatar
Will
Over 9000!!!!
Posts: 9650
Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 3:51 pm
Location: Exeter, Velmaneth, Azeroth, The Three Kingdoms, Labyrinthia...
Contact:

Re: Monsters and Fighting

Postby Will » Wed May 14, 2014 8:17 pm

A system where quad is excitingly high makes me a little giddy.
Saga 2015 will be entirely celebrating and drinking with nothing bad happening and no bad guys showing up at all ever

Thom
Posts: 174
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 6:13 pm

Re: Monsters and Fighting

Postby Thom » Wed May 14, 2014 8:34 pm

Luke wrote:Enter the giant animal, two handed sword wielding mage ;)

I think it's a great idea, and I say this while playing a character entirely built around damage grades. :)


My Saga character is now screwed.

willmhudson
Posts: 89
Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2010 2:35 pm

Re: Monsters and Fighting

Postby willmhudson » Wed May 14, 2014 8:36 pm

Luke wrote:two handed sword wielding mage ;)



Sounds good to me.

willmhudson
Posts: 89
Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2010 2:35 pm

Re: Monsters and Fighting

Postby willmhudson » Wed May 14, 2014 9:20 pm

@Dom; Absolutely, the rules are fine, I dont dislike them. It's just that they are not the highlight of the system. That belongs to the players.

User avatar
Will
Over 9000!!!!
Posts: 9650
Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 3:51 pm
Location: Exeter, Velmaneth, Azeroth, The Three Kingdoms, Labyrinthia...
Contact:

Re: Monsters and Fighting

Postby Will » Wed May 14, 2014 9:25 pm

Thom wrote:My Saga character is now screwed.


Someone steal your idea? ;)

@Dom: I like/love the system as a whole, but I think the damage part of it currently lets down what is otherwise an amazing and varied set of rules.
Saga 2015 will be entirely celebrating and drinking with nothing bad happening and no bad guys showing up at all ever

User avatar
Will
Over 9000!!!!
Posts: 9650
Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 3:51 pm
Location: Exeter, Velmaneth, Azeroth, The Three Kingdoms, Labyrinthia...
Contact:

Re: Monsters and Fighting

Postby Will » Wed May 14, 2014 9:26 pm

And gets in the way of more awesome fights/encounters.
Saga 2015 will be entirely celebrating and drinking with nothing bad happening and no bad guys showing up at all ever

User avatar
Will
Over 9000!!!!
Posts: 9650
Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 3:51 pm
Location: Exeter, Velmaneth, Azeroth, The Three Kingdoms, Labyrinthia...
Contact:

Re: Monsters and Fighting

Postby Will » Wed May 14, 2014 9:28 pm

This is turning into 3 or 4 different discussions.
Saga 2015 will be entirely celebrating and drinking with nothing bad happening and no bad guys showing up at all ever

Hatsuo1980
Posts: 3997
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2009 4:50 pm
Location: Calne, Wiltshire
Contact:

Re: Monsters and Fighting

Postby Hatsuo1980 » Wed May 14, 2014 9:33 pm

I like the 10 year break thing and this gives us a massive opportunity to change things.

I like Will's idea. It needs working on but the principle sounds cool. The execution will need a lot of thought, obviously.

In the short term, Ben is right but something I would like to add based on what others have mentioned to me and my thoughts.

Everyone should fight cooler, that seems to be agreed. If monsters have stats, they should play their stats. If you want fights to work differently, perhaps we need to stat differently. Give monsters, where suitable, 1/2 effects from specific things, immunities to specific things but make them play the stats they are given.

If damage is to high now, fine, let it be and rectify it in the 10 year break, rectify everything that is broken.

There are things we can do in the short term to improve things :D
............................................................................Image

User avatar
Will
Over 9000!!!!
Posts: 9650
Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 3:51 pm
Location: Exeter, Velmaneth, Azeroth, The Three Kingdoms, Labyrinthia...
Contact:

Re: Monsters and Fighting

Postby Will » Wed May 14, 2014 9:36 pm

Hatsuo1980 wrote:rectify everything that is broken.


Steady on, we'd have nothing to argue about then...
Saga 2015 will be entirely celebrating and drinking with nothing bad happening and no bad guys showing up at all ever

Hatsuo1980
Posts: 3997
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2009 4:50 pm
Location: Calne, Wiltshire
Contact:

Re: Monsters and Fighting

Postby Hatsuo1980 » Wed May 14, 2014 9:39 pm

Will wrote:
Hatsuo1980 wrote:rectify everything that is broken.


Steady on, we'd have nothing to argue about then...


we'd argue about what we fucked up that we were trying to fix :P
............................................................................Image


Return to “Discussion and Questions”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest