Cheat Death and dodging

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Rebecca
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Cheat Death and dodging

Postby Rebecca » Sat Mar 01, 2014 12:01 pm

Circle 5
Cheat Death ®
Rank: 15
Range: Self
Duration: Instant
By using this spell the caster may transfer his injuries from one blow/effect/spell to another creature within 40'. All effects of the casters injury are removed and the target takes on those effects. This is a retroactive spell and can save the caster from being reduced to negative hits or soul, it cannot however kill the target outright. If it would do so, the spell fails. This spell has no effect against Touch of Death.



Since the range/target of cheat death is listed as 'self', does this mean that the person onto which the injuries are transferred cannot dodge them, as he/she is not the technical target of the spell?
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Re: Cheat Death and dodging

Postby Stevie » Sat Mar 01, 2014 12:50 pm

I've always had it informally known as like a "redirect".

So the target of the cheat death is self, but the cheat death just moves the "cheated" spell onto another target, so I assumed it would proceed as normal.

Like, in the way that being immune to death doesn't make you immune to cheat death if for instance it was a Fire Barragio that was cheated. The Fire Barragio is the only spell that the cheatee (person who redirect went to) needs to be concerned about.

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Re: Cheat Death and dodging

Postby Rebecca » Sat Mar 01, 2014 2:36 pm

Stevie wrote:Like, in the way that being immune to death doesn't make you immune to cheat death if for instance it was a Fire Barragio that was cheated. The Fire Barragio is the only spell that the cheatee (person who redirect went to) needs to be concerned about.



that's another thing that I'm wondering about.

the caster may transfer his injuries from one blow/effect/spell to another creature within 40'


the spell seems to suppose that it's the damage taken that is moved on, not the blow/effect/spell itself... so if a water elf were to take a fire blot to base locs, thereby suffering 6 points of damage, and cheat deathed it onto a fire elf with fire immunity, that fire elf would be taking 6 damage instead of no damage by virtue of that being the injuries of the target rather than the spell directed at him.
Uukumanu - ranger and spirit seeker
Tuvstarr - Black Queen of Pharon Glos
Imliss - High Elven researcher in Blood Magic
Aetheldred - Sorcerer and psychomancer, daughter of the Völva of the Blood of Alfhild

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Re: Cheat Death and dodging

Postby Hatsuo1980 » Sat Mar 01, 2014 6:38 pm

Going by the letter:

It's self effecting thus immunity to death doesn't apply.

It transfers the injury you take (such as 5 soul damage or 5 normal damage) and transfers that. It doesn't transfer the damage as any type of damage (for example, being hit by gravenail quin does not transfer 5 points of gravenail damage to an undead, just 5 points of damage).

If you get hit by a spell that does ongoing damage, such as bleed, it transfers all influx's of that damage.
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Ben
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Re: Cheat Death and dodging

Postby Ben » Sat Mar 01, 2014 7:39 pm

From the letter of the rules, if an undead took a Gravenail Quin he would take 10 damage, his "injuries" are 10 points of damage so that's what should be transferred?

I don't think Dodge/Supernatural Dodge works, nor does immunity to death. Cheat Death probably works against Cheat Death though.

Probably some rewording might be in order.
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Re: Cheat Death and dodging

Postby Rebecca » Sat Mar 01, 2014 7:42 pm

wow, such strong, very like.
Uukumanu - ranger and spirit seeker
Tuvstarr - Black Queen of Pharon Glos
Imliss - High Elven researcher in Blood Magic
Aetheldred - Sorcerer and psychomancer, daughter of the Völva of the Blood of Alfhild

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Re: Cheat Death and dodging

Postby Luke » Sat Mar 01, 2014 8:50 pm

Honestly id just count it as a redirect. As if hit by the same spell/effect, from the caster. You can still dodge the effect, or mitigate its damage if you could to that spell anyway.

Caster shoots fire strike at hopeslayer, hopeslayer cheats death and aims it back, caster takes a firestrike. If he happens to be immune to fire than that's fine, if he has froopy uniques that break immunities then it hurts him!
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Re: Cheat Death and dodging

Postby Hatsuo1980 » Sat Mar 01, 2014 9:28 pm

Luke wrote:Honestly id just count it as a redirect. As if hit by the same spell/effect, from the caster. You can still dodge the effect, or mitigate its damage if you could to that spell anyway.

Caster shoots fire strike at hopeslayer, hopeslayer cheats death and aims it back, caster takes a firestrike. If he happens to be immune to fire than that's fine, if he has froopy uniques that break immunities then it hurts him!


does this make things complicated?
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Re: Cheat Death and dodging

Postby Ben » Sat Mar 01, 2014 9:36 pm

From a simplicity point of view, I think re-direct is probably the simplest way.

Someone Cheats Death a Gravenail Quin, it's probably simplest if the person it's directed to takes a Gravenail Quin. Or a Water Bolt or whatever is cheated. If you're immune to what's cheated onto you then you're immune to it, if you could apply resistances to it then you can.

I don't think you should be able to Dodge a Cheat Death: you're not being hit by a physical blow. Supernatural would be ok though.

This also stops the potential for someone stabbing themselves with something that they know will really hurt then cheating it onto someone they want to kill...
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Stevie
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Re: Cheat Death and dodging

Postby Stevie » Sat Mar 01, 2014 9:42 pm

Turning Ten Tigers into a ranged carry.

1.) Collect Ten Tigers and a Death/Meta Mage
2.) Cast Powerfont
3.) Ten Tigers hits the mage constantly
4.) Cheat death onto entire demon army.

Win.

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Re: Cheat Death and dodging

Postby Ben » Sat Mar 01, 2014 9:46 pm

Power Font and Cheat Death.

No.
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Re: Cheat Death and dodging

Postby Hatsuo1980 » Sat Mar 01, 2014 9:53 pm

Ben wrote:Power Font and Cheat Death.

No.


It's almost like that should be in the rules for Power Font....

.....oh wait, it is :)

Someone Cheats Death a Gravenail Quin, it's probably simplest if the person it's directed to takes a Gravenail Quin. Or a Water Bolt or whatever is cheated. If you're immune to what's cheated onto you then you're immune to it, if you could apply resistances to it then you can.


I don't agree with this but it's better for me so I won't complain :)
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Re: Cheat Death and dodging

Postby Ben » Sat Mar 01, 2014 10:20 pm

Happy to discuss, just looking to see what would be simplest in a battle.

Either the above or when you shout Cheat Death you also say what damage you would have taken with who you're aiming it at so "Cheat Death, 6 damage, Andy". Andy (in this case) just takes 6 damage: no flavour, no way of avoiding.

I don't mind: just want things to happen smoothly without arguments/discussions/questions.
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Re: Cheat Death and dodging

Postby Hatsuo1980 » Sat Mar 01, 2014 10:35 pm

Ben wrote:Happy to discuss, just looking to see what would be simplest in a battle.

Either the above or when you shout Cheat Death you also say what damage you would have taken with who you're aiming it at so "Cheat Death, 6 damage, Andy". Andy (in this case) just takes 6 damage: no flavour, no way of avoiding.

I don't mind: just want things to happen smoothly without arguments/discussions/questions.


I just wonder how smooth or immersion breaking "Cheat Death, Fire, Light, Death, Shadow, Gravenail, Boltab 6 to the chest from a 2 handed sword calling blunt through Andy" is
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Re: Cheat Death and dodging

Postby Rebecca » Sat Mar 01, 2014 10:52 pm

the way I see it the person casting cheat death effectively becomes a human voodoo doll. They're the model for what happens to the ultimate recipient of the spell. And mechanics-wise, they can just add the damage they would have taken after the cheat death call if it isn't the same as the damage call made, without type since type is essentially irrelevant (unless it's the difference between soul and physical). Seems fair that it should be possible to use supreme supernatural dodge though since it's still a response to a spell, if only for the sake of balance... the standard ways of avoiding other spells are not really more numerous (i.e. SSD and cheat death, typically), except for the purely damaging spells which can be avoided through dex.
Uukumanu - ranger and spirit seeker
Tuvstarr - Black Queen of Pharon Glos
Imliss - High Elven researcher in Blood Magic
Aetheldred - Sorcerer and psychomancer, daughter of the Völva of the Blood of Alfhild


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