Cheat Death and dodging

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Ben
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Re: Cheat Death and dodging

Postby Ben » Sun Mar 02, 2014 12:02 am

I just wonder how smooth or immersion breaking "Cheat Death, Fire, Light, Death, Shadow, Gravenail, Boltab 6 to the chest from a 2 handed sword calling blunt through Andy" is


You misunderstand, when I say "no flavour" I mean the call is simply what damage you would have taken. If the person casting Cheat Death would have taken 1 water damage, the call is "Cheat Death, 1 damage, Andy". If it was 5 rift damage the call would be "Cheat Death, 5 damage, Andy". It's as per the current wording and you're passing on the injury, not the cause of it.

The other way is that the person takes a Fire Strike (or whatever) and shouts "Cheat Death, Fire Strike, Andy" and you take a Fire Strike. If you're immune to fire you ignore it, if you have DRs to fire you use them or you can dodge it or whatever.
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Re: Cheat Death and dodging

Postby Hatsuo1980 » Sun Mar 02, 2014 12:20 am

Ben wrote:
I just wonder how smooth or immersion breaking "Cheat Death, Fire, Light, Death, Shadow, Gravenail, Boltab 6 to the chest from a 2 handed sword calling blunt through Andy" is


You misunderstand, when I say "no flavour" I mean the call is simply what damage you would have taken. If the person casting Cheat Death would have taken 1 water damage, the call is "Cheat Death, 1 damage, Andy". If it was 5 rift damage the call would be "Cheat Death, damage, Andy". It's as per the current wording and you're passing on the injury, not the cause of it.

The other way is that the person takes a Fire Strike (or whatever) and shouts "Cheat Death, Fire Strike, Andy" and you take a Fire Strike. If you're immune to fire you ignore it, if you have DRs to fire you use them or you can dodge it or whatever.


Fair.

To me it just seems less immersion breaking if you just call the damage (e.g. Cheat Death 5 damage chest Andy)

Also, why the fuck are all the cheat deaths aimed at me?!!!

P.S. im not against things breaking immersion, especially from a game balance perspective, I just think it should be a consideration.
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Re: Cheat Death and dodging

Postby Ben » Sun Mar 02, 2014 12:51 pm

They're actually at Andy Brown.

Breaking immersion because they sound OOC is a bit unfortunate but difficult to fix. Breaking immersion because someone doesn't understand what you're talking about, wants to question/argue whatever is worse in my opinion and can often be fixed to some extent by making things simpler/clearer.
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Re: Cheat Death and dodging

Postby Will » Sun Mar 02, 2014 7:03 pm

Yes you can dodge something cheat deathed onto you.

Haven't read the rest of the thread... but that's how I would answer :)
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Re: Cheat Death and dodging

Postby Ben » Sun Mar 02, 2014 7:14 pm

Dodge or only Supernatural Dodge, that was part of the discussion.
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Re: Cheat Death and dodging

Postby Hatsuo1980 » Sun Mar 02, 2014 7:15 pm

It's transferring damage, not redirecting an attack.

I'd say SN dodge applies.
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Re: Cheat Death and dodging

Postby Will » Sun Mar 02, 2014 7:40 pm

Oh ok, you're being targeted by cheat death, not the original spell, so you could SD the cheat death. Cheat death itself doesn't do direct damage so couldn't dodge it.

These are just my opinions, don't think it's vital either way. I'd be tempted just to let it all be used for simplicity and flow.
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Re: Cheat Death and dodging

Postby Peter Levy » Sun Mar 02, 2014 8:12 pm

the way i understand the spell, it's not a redirect.

death magic is used to transfer wounds from the caster onto another. this is a death spell, that causes damage supernaturally. Thus both supernatural dodge and immunity to death should apply.

and it absolutely should be "Cheat Death, X damage Andy"
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Re: Cheat Death and dodging

Postby Peter Levy » Sun Mar 02, 2014 8:13 pm

oh, and you can't cheat death an effect that doesn't actually hurt you.

and you can cheat death it back again. it can't be bounced around as they're both retroactive effects that occur within one second.
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Re: Cheat Death and dodging

Postby Hatsuo1980 » Sun Mar 02, 2014 8:47 pm

Peter Levy wrote:the way i understand the spell, it's not a redirect.

death magic is used to transfer wounds from the caster onto another. this is a death spell, that causes damage supernaturally. Thus both supernatural dodge and immunity to death should apply.

and it absolutely should be "Cheat Death, X damage Andy"


If immunity to death applies what happens to the damage?

1 - the damage is transferred but the person is immune and thus takes no damage

2 - the spell fails and the caster takes the damage (which would be the same for supernatural dodge, I would assume?)
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Re: Cheat Death and dodging

Postby Hatsuo1980 » Sun Mar 02, 2014 8:50 pm

Peter Levy wrote:oh, and you can't cheat death an effect that doesn't actually hurt you.


You can't anyway. In fact you can't cheat death something that doesn't do damage (e.g. sever. It doesn't do damage, it just does an effect)

Peter Levy wrote:and you can cheat death it back again. it can't be bounced around as they're both retroactive effects that occur within one second.


I don't agree with this. If the person reacts quick enough (within 2 seconds) it should be fine.

Also, change the range from Self to 40', it makes it a targeting spell so doesn't need most of the "immune to death" clarification. As it currently stands, you can transfer the damage onto someone who is immune to magic technically.
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Re: Cheat Death and dodging

Postby Peter Levy » Sun Mar 02, 2014 9:02 pm

Hatsuo1980 wrote:If immunity to death applies what happens to the damage?

1 - the damage is transferred but the person is immune and thus takes no damage

2 - the spell fails and the caster takes the damage (which would be the same for supernatural dodge, I would assume?)


immediate instinct is number 2. but thinking about it, number one is more straightforward and not a waste of essence...

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Re: Cheat Death and dodging

Postby Luke » Sun Mar 02, 2014 9:36 pm

Im inclined to agree with Pete and Andy actually. I don't think "cheat death, 4 damage Andy" is immersion breaking any more than any other spell in the game being cast.

I think that it should indeed be made simple, it transfers the original damage (fire strike is 5, quad is 4) regardless of cheat death casters resistances, immunities, weaknesses etc. This is death based damage. All usual immunities and resistances apply.
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Re: Cheat Death and dodging

Postby Luke » Sun Mar 02, 2014 9:37 pm

Oh and no to dodge, yes to SN dodge.

The damage is now ranged and magical. No effects like gravenail are carried over.
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Re: Cheat Death and dodging

Postby Hatsuo1980 » Sun Mar 02, 2014 9:42 pm

Luke wrote:Oh and no to dodge, yes to SN dodge.

The damage is now ranged and magical. No effects like gravenail are carried over.


Does that mean soul damage gets converted to magical damage?
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