Mind over Magic 2.2

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Luke
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Re: Mind over Magic 2.2

Postby Luke » Thu May 01, 2014 2:19 pm

Andy... did we... did we just agree on something??
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Littleben
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Re: Mind over Magic 2.2

Postby Littleben » Thu May 01, 2014 2:26 pm

Hatsuo1980 wrote:Fuck, I just realised I was cheating at the weekend :( Thought Psycomantic Wall was tier 2 Neutral not tier 3 :(


Instant character death NOW.

I'm not sure about balancing this but it seems not many are, I'm just gonna throw in some suggestions that could hel or be cool. Firstly for the pen, it mightbe an idea to take 1 dmg to the head for the caster, as agressive going into someones head and attacking it could be quite strenuous and would limit how much you can do in pvp. For probe however you take your time and so it takes less of a toll.

I like Andy's suggestion for hold despite it indeed being slightly complicated. Maybe have hold as neutral or level one and eachh skill threshold you can add an attribute to it. For example say it's base hold of 1, you could choose to hold an addition target at 60skill increase strength by 2 at 120 skill, reduce cast time significantly at 300 skill. This sort of system could work for otger skills of needed, sort of like a talent tree. I would say any attribute can be picked at each level this is just example.

Another alternative could be that immunity to information effects/spells grants drs to neuronic dmg. Idea being you can keep people out of your mind better I.e. people cant detect lie.

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Re: Mind over Magic 2.2

Postby Hatsuo1980 » Thu May 01, 2014 2:28 pm

Luke wrote:Andy... did we... did we just agree on something??


NO!!! fuck you!!! :)
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Re: Mind over Magic 2.2

Postby Hatsuo1980 » Thu May 01, 2014 2:30 pm

OK expecting some hate here but.....

Psycomantic review/suggestions:

Cleanse the Mind/Discern Emotions: I technically did a Luke (go with what feels right). I saw Edd cast and then disappear then a party member attacked the party. On the first I cast Discern Emotions then cast Cleanse the Mind. Second and third time this happened, I just used Cleanse the Mind because it felt IC obvious what was happening. Is this ok? If so, should we have a rules change to represent or just a “do what feels right IC” thing?

Enhance Sense: Feels fine. More Neutral than Goodly?

Speed of Mind: Feels strong but feels no stronger than, say, shield of X (or just using a shield lol). The 1 global reduction to what is was original felt like a good change.

Levitate: Wonder if this feels more Neutral than Goodly? Don't really care either way.

Mastery: The change made this good but not obscene, like it was. Being able to buff to be at AMD is nice.

Strike the Mind: Seems fine but I’m not 100% convinced on the wording. As written it implies you can harm a magic only creature. I don’t think it should be able to, imo.

Psychomantic Form: I feel this should be Neutral and switched with Strength of Mind, but I don’t really care.

Push/Pull: Push feels more defensive, like a “get that away from me” thing, which feels fine as neutral. Pull feels more a “save someone else” thing. Could that be swapped with Enhance sense maybe?

Lucky Idea: Seems fine :)

Psychomantic Hold: Change to tier one and change wording to
Range: 40’
The target is held still, unable to move or speak, as if by two grades of strength (should the victim have more strength then he is unaffected). The caster must remain immobile and must concentrate to maintain this ability: any other action will break the effect. If either the caster or target take damage then this is broken. This psycomantic may be cast on multiple targets (max 3 total), each being held by 2 grades of strength. Casting Psycomantic Hold while concentrating on Psycomantic hold does not break it.

Add a medium version of Lucky Idea that grants a 3 word answer.

Psycomantic Teleport: Can take an additional target/s for 3 soul per person (or cap at one).

All evil seems fine except:

Remove Neuronic Penetration. Add Neuronic Paralysis to Tier 3. Restore Neurone Death to previous rules.

Sense Mind: don’t think this needs to be costed.

Hone the Mind: don’t think this needs to be costed.

Psychosematic Soul: This seems really good. I think a psycomancy should either have to pay skill for it or get it for free at 60/120 skill.

Add:
Strength of Mind(Legendary/Epic): 2 skill Rank 1, 3 skill rank 2. Gains an extra grade of strength for Psycomantic Hold.

*hides*
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Luke
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Re: Mind over Magic 2.2

Postby Luke » Thu May 01, 2014 2:37 pm

Can't disagree with any of the above.

Psychomantic Hold: Change to tier one and change wording to
Range: 40’
The target is held still, unable to move or speak, as if by two grades of strength (should the victim have more strength then he is unaffected). The caster must remain immobile and must concentrate to maintain this ability: any other action will break the effect. If either the caster or target take damage then this is broken. This psycomantic may be cast on multiple targets (max 3 total), each being held by 2 grades of strength. Casting Psycomantic Hold while concentrating on Psycomantic hold does not break it.


What about increasing it's strength value to say 3/4, but each additional target is held by 1 less strength.

1 at str 4
2 at str 3
3 at str 2 etc

This seems pretty simple to me?

Also unsurprisingly I didn't have any issue with your use of Cleanse the Mind. I don't think the wording needs cleaning up.
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Littleben
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Re: Mind over Magic 2.2

Postby Littleben » Thu May 01, 2014 2:38 pm

Pull could be for pulling enemies towards you too : )
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Re: Mind over Magic 2.2

Postby Hatsuo1980 » Thu May 01, 2014 2:39 pm

Littleben wrote:Pull could be for pulling enemies towards you too : )


That's exactly why I think it should be goodly :)
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Re: Mind over Magic 2.2

Postby Hatsuo1980 » Thu May 01, 2014 2:41 pm

Luke wrote:Can't disagree with any of the above.

Psychomantic Hold: Change to tier one and change wording to
Range: 40’
The target is held still, unable to move or speak, as if by two grades of strength (should the victim have more strength then he is unaffected). The caster must remain immobile and must concentrate to maintain this ability: any other action will break the effect. If either the caster or target take damage then this is broken. This psycomantic may be cast on multiple targets (max 3 total), each being held by 2 grades of strength. Casting Psycomantic Hold while concentrating on Psycomantic hold does not break it.


What about increasing it's strength value to say 3/4, but each additional target is held by 1 less strength.

1 at str 4
2 at str 3
3 at str 2 etc

This seems pretty simple to me?

Also unsurprisingly I didn't have any issue with your use of Cleanse the Mind. I don't think the wording needs cleaning up.


wonder if that makes

Add:
Strength of Mind(Legendary/Epic): 2 skill Rank 1, 3 skill rank 2. Gains an extra grade of strength for Psycomantic Hold.


to good? or did you factor that in?

I am not adverse to your idea, I just like making things simple :)
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Luke
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Re: Mind over Magic 2.2

Postby Luke » Thu May 01, 2014 2:44 pm

Umm probably keep it at 2 strength base then, and have that as a bolt on. Seems quite flavoursome.
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Re: Mind over Magic 2.2

Postby Hatsuo1980 » Thu May 01, 2014 2:45 pm

Also makes another skill investment to give a psycomancer more options than "buy more soul"
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Stevie
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Re: Mind over Magic 2.2

Postby Stevie » Thu May 01, 2014 3:51 pm

I'd still Unique the holding multiple people with Psycomantic Hold.

I think it's a really cool concept, but it might be best to keep the core rules light.

I know you've got a big hard-on for Neuro-Death, but I think taking it out was a good call. I don't think its something that works well within game mechanics and I feel "It creates more problems than it solves"

I see Psycomancy currently as a light and simple set of skills that are quite intuitive in their effects, I would hope that they mostly stay that way.

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Re: Mind over Magic 2.2

Postby Thom » Thu May 01, 2014 3:54 pm

Stevie wrote:
Probe (i)
Range: Touch
By laying their palm upon the subject’s head, the Psychomancer may draw knowledge from them. The subject must answer truthfully to a single yes/no question. This counts as an informational effect for the purposes of immunity. However, if the subject does not know the answer or is immune (or uses some other method to deceive/not answer) they instead take a single point of psychomantic damage to the head.


I think if an answer is provided than the damage shouldn't go through. So, say I happen to be a Hopestarved and can deceive info effects and spend some essence to give a different answer, the fact that I would either visibly wince as I take damage to the head or fall over destroys the whole basis of the deception.

So yeah, if any answer is provided (truthful or not, then there is no need for the Psycomancer to shake the target down for information - I imagine it like 24, if you don't answer, someone is gonna punch you in the face.) I feel that the damage portion would be satisfied and would not need to go off.



I am of the opinion that probe should do 1 psychomantic damage to the head regardless- You have just, or attempted to, rip information from their mind.

Also https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrvh_jB6c70

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Stevie
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Re: Mind over Magic 2.2

Postby Stevie » Thu May 01, 2014 3:56 pm

I don't mind it always doing the damage, because the deception would still seem genuine.

Either works really.

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Re: Mind over Magic 2.2

Postby Hatsuo1980 » Thu May 01, 2014 4:28 pm

Stevie wrote:I'd still Unique the holding multiple people with Psycomantic Hold.

I think it's a really cool concept, but it might be best to keep the core rules light.

I know you've got a big hard-on for Neuro-Death, but I think taking it out was a good call. I don't think its something that works well within game mechanics and I feel "It creates more problems than it solves"

I see Psycomancy currently as a light and simple set of skills that are quite intuitive in their effects, I would hope that they mostly stay that way.


Considering their is a neuronic that removes any of the sense, I don't think it's that bad to be honest. Then again, I'd be happy with exchanging Neuro Pen for Neuro Paralysis :)

As for not working within the mechanics, all parts of it already exist within the mechanics of the game.

On the probe discussion, wouldn't bother me if it always did 1 point of damage.
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Stevie
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Re: Mind over Magic 2.2

Postby Stevie » Thu May 01, 2014 5:19 pm

Am I thinking about the right thing, the thing that can remove either

a.) STR & DEX
b.) All Abilities
c.) All Magic

I just feel it's not needed and has a strong possibility to cause confusion. I agree with the decision to take it out. (If I'm remembering the wrong thing, apologies.)


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