Serkanian Update

The place to talk about the rules of the system and to get any help with the making of characters etc.

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Thom
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Re: Serkanian Update

Postby Thom » Mon Mar 31, 2014 11:32 pm

Ben wrote:
Have a minus to academic doesn't make you a mage. Doing 10 (or whatever) would only be at high levels. The idea was that when you take your sword out (a last resort) you can't resist magic, regen, dodge or do anything else you might do with chi: you end up able to call high damage but that's it.


The problem I see with that is that in 90% of cases, you'll never use your sword as a last resort, because in a "last resort" situation, being able to dodge, regen and resist magic is much, much more useful than 3 or 4 extra damage grades. Nine time out of ten, I'd say. In my opinion you'd only ever see a Shaded Blade draw their sword to show off a bit.

I know that's what it's sort of supposed to be for, but I just think when you see a Shaded Blade unshade their sword, people should think "Okay, now we're in trouble. Sh*t is about to go down", and then they watch the Shaded Blade have his moment of glory holding off three monsters or whatever, instead of watching him call a high damage grade once and then die to a monster with a shield calling quad.

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Ben
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Re: Serkanian Update

Postby Ben » Tue Apr 01, 2014 12:01 am

You're probably right.
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Stevie
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Re: Serkanian Update

Postby Stevie » Tue Apr 01, 2014 11:30 am

So I got bored at work and started thinking about what stats I would add to Shaded Blades. In the end I didn't get around to actually stating them, but in the meantime this story came out of my head.

The crafting process of Serkanian blades (or Tamahagane) has largely stayed the same since the early Blade Masters perfected the process. However in the year 107, a talented crafter by the name of Totura Segushan made a unprecedented discovery that changed the very nature of Tamahagane crafting.

The years between 102-108 were informally known as the “Violet Revolution”, it marked a significant paradigm shift in the way that the various Castes engaged Demonkind. The focus changed from immediate destruction to one of study and infiltration, attempting to understand the demons in order to fight them more efficiently. Demons were often captured alive and experimented upon. Crafters would use their flesh and their claws to create armour and weapons in the hope they could strike down the Demonkind with greater ease.

The “Violet Revolution” was deeply unpopular with some of the Castes, most notably the Furious Blades. In the entire 6 year period of the “Violet Revolution” no Furious Blade managed to capture a live Demon, accidents and mishaps often occurring that would render the Demon bereft of life. In March of 108, after much petitioning of the Empress, the leader of the Furious Blades – One-Thousand Mountains – was granted his wish, to duel for the end of the process of capturing demons and using demon-forged equipment. The leader of the Shaded Blades – One-Thousand Fists – volunteered to fight for the continuation of the process, believing it to be beneficial to the war effort.

The duel was held in private, with only the Empress and the other Caste leaders in attendance. It was a fight of un-paralleled skill, two of the greatest masters of swords matching blow for blow at a lightning fast pace. When it seemed that neither would get the upper hand the Empress called the duel to a stop. After it was stopped both men petitioned the Empress to allow them to continue, assuring her that they were close to wearing the other down. The Empress denied the request, on the grounds that the duel could continue for 100 hours and there would be no change.

Upon hearing the Empresses reasoning One-Thousand Fists again petitioned the Empress to allow them to continue, but to allow him the use of another blade instead. It is dishonourable for a Shaded Blade to use any other blade then his own, and to show such dishonour in front of the Empress would only have one outcome. The last words of One-Thousand Fists were “Allow me to take this dishonour upon my own shoulders and to carry it with me to the River Eternal so that I may show you the weapon of Gigokus (Demon) demise.”

The Empress granted permission for the duel to continue, One-Thousand Fists drew the blade crafted by Totura Segushan in 107. The blade glowed a soft purple and reflected light in an unnatural way, the Kami inside was infused with the lifeforce of a Demon General. The duel continued, and ended almost immediately. One-Thousand Fists moved and struck with unfathomable speed, precision and strength, causing injuries that One-Thousand Mountains never recovered from. When the duel was called to an end One-Thousand Fists sheathed Demons Demise, taking up his own and committing Seppoku.

The “Violet Revolution” formally ended that day, only being continued in secret on the Empresses orders. Totura Segushan continued to craft blades infused with Demon lifeforce, but never again to the magnitude of Demons Demise, which has been hidden beyond all knowledge. The existence of the Demon Blades is kept secret from all but the Shaded Blade Caste and those who were present at the duel. The Shaded Blade Caste were deemed the only Caste capable of restraint with the blades. This is why when they draw their blades, their skill is unmatched.

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Re: Serkanian Update

Postby Hatsuo1980 » Tue Apr 01, 2014 12:09 pm

Great story.....the Empress didn't exist in 108 though, I believe?

Pretty sure the naming didn't either :)
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Luke
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Re: Serkanian Update

Postby Luke » Tue Apr 01, 2014 4:50 pm

I like the story, but yeah a little doctoring to retcon it is needed. Shaded blades don't need anything else.

Also can I just make a really really polite suggestion that we perhaps steer the lore away from Japan. Feel like everything that is written has Japanese names, Japanese styles/cultural processes. The naming system was mongolian! (inspired).

Also if this shaded furious blade argument continues, can I just say that Shaded Blades don't have an honour code which requires them to commit suicide. That's a pretty MASSIVE draw back for the Furious.

Shaded fit the bill perfectly. We don't need stats to represent the drawing of the sword, it confers physical advantages, and statistical advantages on it's own (+2 damage, reach).

I feel like we are trying to add flavour by filling it with chilli powder. When all we wanted was to leave the chef to do the presentation. if you catch my meaning...
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Re: Serkanian Update

Postby Hatsuo1980 » Tue Apr 01, 2014 4:55 pm

Also can I just make a really really polite suggestion that we perhaps steer the lore away from Japan. Feel like everything that is written has Japanese names, Japanese styles/cultural processes. The naming system was mongolian! (inspired).

Also if this shaded furious blade argument continues, can I just say that Shaded Blades don't have an honour code which requires them to commit suicide. That's a pretty MASSIVE draw back for the Furious.


It's also very Japanese :) I always believed that the code a Furious Blade followed was one followed, to a degree, by all Serkanian's just not to the same level as the Furious Blades. Is this not the case?

Out of interest, what is wrong with Japanese?
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Luke
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Re: Serkanian Update

Postby Luke » Tue Apr 01, 2014 5:16 pm

Nothing at all, but I think serke kemi can be more than Japanese, which is a little played-out in the fantasy genre. I'm all for Japanese style, but not exclusively. Other pan-asian cultures should be included.

As for Honour Code for Furious Blades, I think I'm just gunna play it how it feels right. And for the event in April that's certainly how I'm going to be judging others. I don't expect anyone to kill themselves unless they really REALLY mess up.
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Ben
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Re: Serkanian Update

Postby Ben » Tue Apr 01, 2014 6:15 pm

It's Japanese because that's what people have written: if people write more non-Japanese stuff, we'll incorporate it. For example, the quotes I put up as part of an academic based Shaded Blade were from The Art of War (Chinese).

Shaded blades don't need anything else.


This is an opinion not necessarily shared by everyone. I've put a lot of work into the Serkanian rules and when people point out a potential flaw then I'm interested in correcting it. I happen to believe they are lacking something to make them different so have been playing around with various possibilities.

Shaded Blades don't have an honour code which requires them to commit suicide


Not entirely sure Furious Blades are required to commit suicide. It's a suggestion though :)

We don't need stats to represent the drawing of the sword, it confers physical advantages, and statistical advantages on it's own (+2 damage, reach).


Agreed. So why not use it all the time except because at some point someone wrote that Shaded Blades only use their swords as a last resort? I'd like there to be some reason behind it and possibly some advantage they get while not using it (rather than an advantage/disadvantage when drawing it). Maybe...

Defensive Fighting
Grants one parry hit per rank in unarmed combat. These parry hits only apply while using unarmed combat.


Or just forget it. Fed up with coming up with stuff just to be told "Shaded Blades are fine" when no one wants to play them.
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Luke
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Re: Serkanian Update

Postby Luke » Tue Apr 01, 2014 7:41 pm

Your game. Do what you want. If you dont want us to criticise suggestions then just lock the thread.

I promise i don't mean to be dismissive, I appreciate the work you are putting in, as does everyone else.

Why cant we say that shaded blades revere kami, they almost worship them, and each of their kami surround an element of study and training. drawing the sword for menial tasks is a abusing a kami which isnt built for war (unlike furious blades).

i think you should play a shaded blade Ben, with free reign on event to do as you wish and try things out. See what feels right.
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Re: Serkanian Update

Postby Ben » Tue Apr 01, 2014 9:58 pm

Your game. Do what you want. If you dont want us to criticise suggestions then just lock the thread.


The game belongs to the players, not the refs and I have never locked a thread to stifle free speech. I have no issue with criticism of suggestions but there is literally no point in coming up with ideas when the general consensus is there's no problem. Sorry I sounded petulant.

There are other parts of the system I should be spending my time and effort on rather than obsessing over a single class.

I will play one, I'll work out what they need if anything.
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Hatsuo1980
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Re: Serkanian Update

Postby Hatsuo1980 » Thu Apr 03, 2014 11:18 am

Version 6.0 Peoples of Velmaneth

Furious Blades - -2 Martial, +2 Academic
Code of Conduct
Personalised EQ
May buy stop bleeding, 2h parry, disarm, leg sweep

Shaded Blades - -1 Martial, -1 Stealth, +2 Academic
+1 damage with their sword. 2h profs = unarmed profs.
May buy stop bleeding, FLP/FAP, 2h parry, disarm, leg sweep

Shaded Blades always had worse mods than a Furious Blade but they had FLP/FAP, which was cool :) The reason to be a Shaded Blade, statistically, was that you could be a "dex fighter" instead of the Furious Blade "armour fighter". This appealed to me, it's why it was the first class I played at HoP.

With the rework (which I love generally, btw, I think you did an awesome job) we got something like this:

Overall:
Disarm/Legsweep/Stop Bleeding become Clan based.

Furious Blade:
New mods make -3 martial achievable
May buy FLP/FAP
Gain 2H Parry for free

Shaded Blade: Mods may remain the same or become -2 stealth
Loses parry hits. Loses +1 damage with sword. Save skill as profs in Unarmed now give profs in 2h, instead of vice-versa.

So Furious Blades got "buffed" and Shade Blades lost some survival stuff (bare in mind, expensive hits per, only dex-based globals, generally low armour).

Suggested Changes:

You want Shaded Blades to be "cool" when they get their sword out - give them back +1 damage with chosen weapon.

You want to restore some balance to survival, give them parry hits - probably the suggestion you made, Ben, as this felt very fair.

If you don't like the above, just give them -2 to stealth so they can get reasonable levels of dex.

@Luke: And you called my comment rude.....
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Luke
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Re: Serkanian Update

Postby Luke » Thu Apr 03, 2014 12:23 pm

@Andy - I don't need to explain myself to you.

You left out in your summary that Shaded Blades will rely on Dexterity, so losing parry hits is basically negated.

I'm signing out of this thread/boards, I get the impression everyone is wasting their time going around in circles.
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Re: Serkanian Update

Postby Hatsuo1980 » Thu Apr 03, 2014 12:30 pm

Luke wrote:You left out in your summary that Shaded Blades will rely on Dexterity, so losing parry hits is basically negated.


They bought Dex before.......so no that wasn't left it, it was clearly implied in how they were "dex fighters" :)
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Re: Serkanian Update

Postby Hatsuo1980 » Thu Apr 03, 2014 12:31 pm

I did also say give them parry hit's or cheaper dex, not both....
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