Impending Rules Changes (V7 warning)

The place to talk about the rules of the system and to get any help with the making of characters etc.

Moderators: Ref, Senior Refs

User avatar
Will
Over 9000!!!!
Posts: 9650
Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 3:51 pm
Location: Exeter, Velmaneth, Azeroth, The Three Kingdoms, Labyrinthia...
Contact:

Impending Rules Changes (V7 warning)

Postby Will » Tue Jul 01, 2014 5:03 pm

Following awesomely productive day with Ben, Peter and I yesterday, the following changes are imminent:

Damage

Weapon proficiency, max damage, different weapon damage types, all that jaz is going. It is instead being replaced with "Weapon Proficiency Martial" which will cost a base of 15 skill to give + 1 damage in all martial weapons (as currently listed) "Weapon Proficiency Stealth" at 15 skill and "Weapon Proficiency Projectile" at 10 skill.

Backstab will now only apply to the first blow in a combat/2 min break with each weapon.

2 handed weapons give a flat + 1 damage.

Bonus damage from magic weapons is capped at one per threshold.

Bonus damage from magic enhancements from spells is capped at one per threshold.

Other bonuses for classes/races remain.

The idea here is that the "ethos" of the system shifts towards significantly lower damage grades. Single/Double should be the norm, with triples and quads being pretty strong. Above this is really going mental territory. The hope is that there will be a definite change in attitude towards damage in that "interesting" things is better than "numbers".

Strength will likely reduce in cost.

Fights should be more epic and less quick, though monster statting will adjust significantly to accommodate this change.

Unarmed combat will be a separate single skill that allows you to apply you proficiencies to unarmed.

Meditation/Magic

Every character will start with basic meditation (spend one essence, get one back every 10 mins till you fight/cast etc)

The meditation skill will now allow you to mediate at the higher rates, but only if you are properly sat down, resting, concentrating on being meditating.

The ethos there is that essence seems far to available at higher levels and is rarely a limiting factor, which it should be for balance as the rules are written. Giving the basic one for free stops the current annoying choice at low levels about sinking 4 skill into meditate.

Spell capacity will go. Cause no one cares about this anyway.

Flying

Flying/walk on spells will now allow you to be at three distinct heights rather than increments of feet. It will take ten seconds to go between heights

Hovering: Just off the floor, immune to stuff happening because the floor is shit/not there.
Gliding: To far away to be struck by melee, but as vulnerable to ranged stuff as if you were on the ground. May also cast/shoot as though you were on the ground.
Soaring: You're out of there. Not involved unless someone else is flying.

Another person flying can affect you as I hope logic would dictate from comparable heights. Possibly say you can go soaring + 1 + 2 etc to get away from people?

DRs

Can no longer reduce singles to 0. Only resistance of the legends can reduce damage to 0.

DRs from armour apply equally to all physical damage.

Multi Classing

Now completes after one event rather than 30 skill.

General Skills/Abilities stuff

Tracking will now allow you one question about the tracks per rank. So, which direction, what race etc

Staff prof removed from academic

Lore skills will be written into the basic obvious ones with option for more

Basic potions will now all have 100% chance and be a single rank skill

Battle ready can now only be used in another persons time stop

Supernatural dodge can only be used against directly damaging spells that could be argued to have a visible component (e.g. fire bolt)

Mend armour no longer has an essence cost

Classes/Races

Disciplined stance to be removed

Celebrant only spells to be added again

And I think that's it!

This will likely happen between Saga and Buried weekend on the 30th/31st of August.
Saga 2015 will be entirely celebrating and drinking with nothing bad happening and no bad guys showing up at all ever

Luke
Posts: 1622
Joined: Sat May 16, 2009 5:26 pm

Re: Impending Rules Changes (V7 warning)

Postby Luke » Tue Jul 01, 2014 5:17 pm

Love it. My only slightly remote issue is that I think you should be able to converse while meditating. We have a really lovely system at the moment where we can come up with plans and recuperate and get involved. I think jeopardising that would be a serious oversight.

Burning hands OP ;)
Warryn Coshwood - Diamond Elf Paladin of Gerethenax
Ten Tigers - Serkanian Furious Blade
Ishan-bey - Kor Sorcerer

Hatsuo1980
Posts: 3997
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2009 4:50 pm
Location: Calne, Wiltshire
Contact:

Re: Impending Rules Changes (V7 warning)

Postby Hatsuo1980 » Tue Jul 01, 2014 5:24 pm

All this is cool. Few things I'd like to check.

Damage

Weapon proficiency, max damage, different weapon damage types, all that jaz is going. It is instead being replaced with "Weapon Proficiency Martial" which will cost a base of 15 skill to give + 1 damage in all martial weapons (as currently listed) "Weapon Proficiency Stealth" at 15 skill and "Weapon Proficiency Projectile" at 10 skill.


Does this increase your damage or increases your maximum damage (still requiring appropriate dex/str)?

Backstab will now only apply to the first blow in a combat/2 min break with each weapon.


Resets like dex?

2 handed weapons give a flat + 1 damage.


Bastard weapons fall into this category? Still requires the prof to gain the +1?

Bonus damage from magic weapons is capped at one per threshold.

Bonus damage from magic enhancements from spells is capped at one per threshold.


Do these stack? E.g. a 120 skill warrior with a +3 sword and get's a +2 spell bonus gets a +3 (highest), +4 (combined, capped at threshold) or +5 (they stack but each is capped at threshold)

Other bonuses for classes/races remain.


Good good
............................................................................Image

Hatsuo1980
Posts: 3997
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2009 4:50 pm
Location: Calne, Wiltshire
Contact:

Re: Impending Rules Changes (V7 warning)

Postby Hatsuo1980 » Tue Jul 01, 2014 5:30 pm

Oh and I assume there will be associated respends for those this effects?
............................................................................Image

Erynion
Posts: 188
Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2009 7:41 pm
Location: Abercarn, Caerphilly, Wales

Re: Impending Rules Changes (V7 warning)

Postby Erynion » Tue Jul 01, 2014 6:13 pm

Love it all, take it this is for post saga?
Erynion - Possessed wood elf - Dead again
Quinn - The jester - Dead
Anthony Landon - How much you paying?
Chase - The hunter - only nice character I seem to have :)

User avatar
Peter Levy
Posts: 1011
Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2009 5:52 pm
Contact:

Re: Impending Rules Changes (V7 warning)

Postby Peter Levy » Tue Jul 01, 2014 7:35 pm

Hatsuo1980 wrote:All this is cool. Few things I'd like to check.

Does this increase your damage or increases your maximum damage (still requiring appropriate dex/str)?

allows you to apply strength or dex to increase damage. maximum damage is removed. possibly, don't take my word on this...

Backstab will now only apply to the first blow in a combat/2 min break with each weapon.

Resets like dex?

yes.

2 handed weapons give a flat + 1 damage.

Bastard weapons fall into this category? Still requires the prof to gain the +1?

bastard weapons do fall into this category, and do not require prof to gain the +1 bonus

Bonus damage from magic weapons is capped at one per threshold.

Bonus damage from magic enhancements from spells is capped at one per threshold.

Do these stack? E.g. a 120 skill warrior with a +3 sword and get's a +2 spell bonus gets a +3 (highest), +4 (combined, capped at threshold) or +5 (they stack but each is capped at threshold)

+5: stacked, each capped by threshold.
Señor Ref

User avatar
Peter Levy
Posts: 1011
Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2009 5:52 pm
Contact:

Re: Impending Rules Changes (V7 warning)

Postby Peter Levy » Tue Jul 01, 2014 7:36 pm

additionally, weapon proficiencies will cost 15, 20, 25, 30 etc, for melee weapons
Señor Ref

User avatar
Ben
More posts than Nikki
Posts: 6999
Joined: Sun Jan 16, 2005 10:12 pm
Contact:

Re: Impending Rules Changes (V7 warning)

Postby Ben » Tue Jul 01, 2014 7:48 pm

Max damage is gone.

I think we were ok with talking during higher med?

Backstab resets like dex. Second wind applies but opponent has to be unaware again (no hitting someone, instant second wind and hitting them again).

If you're wielding an appropriate weapon in 2 hands then you gain +1 damage.

Initially we discussed it and said each could stack but I think the weapon based enhancement limit should be temp/permanent weapon combined (so a 120 skill character can take advantage of +4: so a +1 sword and +3 spell or whatever).

Respends for whoever needs them.
"And unconscious people always count as willing"

Tome of Magic 6.0

Luke
Posts: 1622
Joined: Sat May 16, 2009 5:26 pm

Re: Impending Rules Changes (V7 warning)

Postby Luke » Tue Jul 01, 2014 7:51 pm

Ben wrote:
Initially we discussed it and said each could stack but I think the weapon based enhancement limit should be temp/permanent weapon combined (so a 120 skill character can take advantage of +4: so a +1 sword and +3 spell or whatever).


Prefer this. More like dnd with typed bonuses, 'magic bonus', 'physical bonus' etc. Where bonuses from different sources don't stack. I think in DnD it's that the highest applies but I think the threshold limit works better :D
Warryn Coshwood - Diamond Elf Paladin of Gerethenax
Ten Tigers - Serkanian Furious Blade
Ishan-bey - Kor Sorcerer

User avatar
Ben
More posts than Nikki
Posts: 6999
Joined: Sun Jan 16, 2005 10:12 pm
Contact:

Re: Impending Rules Changes (V7 warning)

Postby Ben » Tue Jul 01, 2014 7:51 pm

additionally, weapon proficiencies will cost 15, 20, 25, 30 etc, for melee weapons


Yeah. As we said, we're really trying to cut down on the damage calls: It will be a big investment of skill to do more damage and hopefully this will end the perceived importance of being a Scout or Warrior with -3 to martial/stealth.
"And unconscious people always count as willing"

Tome of Magic 6.0

User avatar
Ben
More posts than Nikki
Posts: 6999
Joined: Sun Jan 16, 2005 10:12 pm
Contact:

Re: Impending Rules Changes (V7 warning)

Postby Ben » Tue Jul 01, 2014 7:54 pm

Strength will likely reduce in cost.


Actually I think Strength is fine as it is: there'll be less need to have lots of it.
"And unconscious people always count as willing"

Tome of Magic 6.0

Luke
Posts: 1622
Joined: Sat May 16, 2009 5:26 pm

Re: Impending Rules Changes (V7 warning)

Postby Luke » Tue Jul 01, 2014 7:55 pm

I half approve of the changes to flying... and half think that all flight should be removed from the system. Looks crap, feels crap, totally breaks immersion (I get it, we cast spells blah blah blah, but flying is just too far imo).

It's just my opinion though, and as a rule I'm just not taking it.


Changes to damage grades are excellent, some classes like furious blades get awful but thats a matter of tweaking. Nagging fear that no-one will play anything other than a high mage. Damage can be comparable to warrior, but spells become a whole lot stronger, survivability overall increased, will just have to see I suppose. Ultimately I think people are moving away from stat-whoring anyway :D
Warryn Coshwood - Diamond Elf Paladin of Gerethenax
Ten Tigers - Serkanian Furious Blade
Ishan-bey - Kor Sorcerer

User avatar
Will
Over 9000!!!!
Posts: 9650
Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 3:51 pm
Location: Exeter, Velmaneth, Azeroth, The Three Kingdoms, Labyrinthia...
Contact:

Re: Impending Rules Changes (V7 warning)

Postby Will » Tue Jul 01, 2014 11:21 pm

Luke wrote:Love it. My only slightly remote issue is that I think you should be able to converse while meditating. We have a really lovely system at the moment where we can come up with plans and recuperate and get involved. I think jeopardising that would be a serious oversight.

Burning hands OP ;)


That was our thought actually. We weren't thinking "No doing anything". Just not as it currently is.
Saga 2015 will be entirely celebrating and drinking with nothing bad happening and no bad guys showing up at all ever

User avatar
Will
Over 9000!!!!
Posts: 9650
Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 3:51 pm
Location: Exeter, Velmaneth, Azeroth, The Three Kingdoms, Labyrinthia...
Contact:

Re: Impending Rules Changes (V7 warning)

Postby Will » Tue Jul 01, 2014 11:25 pm

Hatsuo1980 wrote:Does this increase your damage or increases your maximum damage (still requiring appropriate dex/str)?


There will be no max damage so yeah, just + 1 damage. Simples.

Resets like dex?


Yup

Bastard weapons fall into this category? Still requires the prof to gain the +1?


Yep and no.

Do these stack? E.g. a 120 skill warrior with a +3 sword and get's a +2 spell bonus gets a +3 (highest), +4 (combined, capped at threshold) or +5 (they stack but each is capped at threshold)


We need a longer conversation about this :)
Saga 2015 will be entirely celebrating and drinking with nothing bad happening and no bad guys showing up at all ever

User avatar
Will
Over 9000!!!!
Posts: 9650
Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 3:51 pm
Location: Exeter, Velmaneth, Azeroth, The Three Kingdoms, Labyrinthia...
Contact:

Re: Impending Rules Changes (V7 warning)

Postby Will » Tue Jul 01, 2014 11:26 pm

Hatsuo1980 wrote:Oh and I assume there will be associated respends for those this effects?


Nah, I forgot the new Rule 4

"We're dicks"
Saga 2015 will be entirely celebrating and drinking with nothing bad happening and no bad guys showing up at all ever


Return to “HoP Rules”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest