Rules Update: Faith and Churches

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Hatsuo1980
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Re: Rules Update: Faith and Churches

Postby Hatsuo1980 » Tue Mar 10, 2015 11:52 am

Haven't thought of a tier 2 Faithless yet but something like this?

Faithless:

1 – Strength of Self: Gain +1 Strength, +1 Soul, +1 Hit Per Location and +1 Dex for 2 minutes.
2 –
3 – Atheism: May call “I renounce your Faith” to deny power any listed favour-based ability. This is a retroactive ability.
4 – Force of Will: This retroactive ability may be used to “no effect” any non-damaging effect that targets the character (e.g. Possession but not Flaming Apparition).
5 - Unbeliever: For the duration the character may call “Reckoning” instead of their normal damage grade. Reckoning does 2 points of soul damage per point of faith the victim has (e.g. if you hit someone with faith 4 they take 8 soul damage).
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Re: Rules Update: Faith and Churches

Postby Hatsuo1980 » Tue Mar 10, 2015 11:55 am

Also, a thought about faith abilities and their IC/OOC calls

1: All favour abilities need a name, so they are clearly identifiable when used.

2: Should have a proceeding thing, like "Faith" or something so the OOC call becomes "Faith Resurrection" or whatever

3: Should have to either pray or audibly call on your god before the OOC declaration, eg. "Hope hear my call and restore this one to life - Faith Ressurection" (yes I know, ritual, yadda yadda yadda, it's just an example)
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Re: Rules Update: Faith and Churches

Postby Ben » Tue Mar 10, 2015 12:08 pm

How do you see people getting higher ranks of Faithless?

Not entirely convinced on Faithless having its own benefits: Faith benefits are granted by the gods as a reward...however, technically, they would also be removing your Faithless abilities so a god isn't really giving you anything.
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Re: Rules Update: Faith and Churches

Postby Hatsuo1980 » Tue Mar 10, 2015 12:17 pm

Ben wrote:How do you see people getting higher ranks of Faithless?

Not entirely convinced on Faithless having its own benefits: Faith benefits are granted by the gods as a reward...however, technically, they would also be removing your Faithless abilities so a god isn't really giving you anything.


Like Gods, there can be an ethos to it. And, like gods, you roleplay and get "faith". Luke and I "preached" about how gods are just powerful men and women, argued with others about it, stood in the face of gods and said as much and bound gods power and locked it away. That's just one way of approaching things. I'm confident, like with faith, there are many ways to interpret and roleplay being faithless.
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Re: Rules Update: Faith and Churches

Postby Dellam » Tue Mar 10, 2015 1:16 pm

As a thought, maybe Asternia makes more sense as a Good and Battle deity, with a view that justice itself is more like a sword to judge the guilty.

Also, Varya and Mektar. Same areas but the other way around....maybe make Mektar as Good and Protection as he's more the god of honor whereas Varya is the god of a people who have always been in conflict?
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Re: Rules Update: Faith and Churches

Postby Dellam » Thu Mar 12, 2015 11:37 am

Also Neffekeffen faith....I think should be Freedom and one other selected randomly at the start of each day. It was always a thing that Neffekeffen believed in absolute freedom afterall from all constraints, especially mental ones.
The proviso that his followers make rituals wildly unpredictable for better or worse should also still be a thing, although that's less a rules question. :)
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Re: Rules Update: Faith and Churches

Postby Ben » Thu Mar 12, 2015 12:59 pm

Hatsuo1980 wrote:
Ben wrote:How do you see people getting higher ranks of Faithless?

Not entirely convinced on Faithless having its own benefits: Faith benefits are granted by the gods as a reward...however, technically, they would also be removing your Faithless abilities so a god isn't really giving you anything.


Like Gods, there can be an ethos to it. And, like gods, you roleplay and get "faith". Luke and I "preached" about how gods are just powerful men and women, argued with others about it, stood in the face of gods and said as much and bound gods power and locked it away. That's just one way of approaching things. I'm confident, like with faith, there are many ways to interpret and roleplay being faithless.


It just feels odd to me that following a god grants you X benefits but takes away Y and that somehow we're trying to balance X and Y because power granted by a god's favour shouldn't be more powerful than what you have anyway.

My feeling is that Essence is the power of the hero...if we want to try to balance faithless with faithful (still not sure about this) then perhaps something essence related? Extra essence may be dull but would grant some balance.

Or, as religious magic is generally Life/Death/Light/Shadow, those without faith gain a free rank of DR Absolute? This represents them being less attuned to these elements and thus less affected.
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Re: Rules Update: Faith and Churches

Postby Hatsuo1980 » Thu Mar 12, 2015 1:04 pm

It just feels odd to me that following a god grants you X benefits but takes away Y and that somehow we're trying to balance X and Y because power granted by a god's favour shouldn't be more powerful than what you have anyway.

My feeling is that Essence is the power of the hero...if we want to try to balance faithless with faithful (still not sure about this) then perhaps something essence related? Extra essence may be dull but would grant some balance.

Or, as religious magic is generally Life/Death/Light/Shadow, those without faith gain a free rank of DR Absolute? This represents them being less attuned to these elements and thus less affected.


You are probably right, maybe we just don't give faithless people anything and assume people will still not follow gods because of roleplay?
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Re: Rules Update: Faith and Churches

Postby Sonny » Thu Mar 12, 2015 2:29 pm

sometimes a good concept can overrule advantages and bonus stuff :D

like im building a strenght based brawler who wants to stack hits and such but im not going mistborn warriror even though it would give me much better benefits

i still think having faith can be a disadvantage as well after all, can get you targeted, outcast or make some fun conflict that adds to the rp and the game

dont honestly think faithless need anything, as everyone is faithless until they earn their first rank after all (ignoring celebrants and angels etc)
its just the natural state before the gods interveen

my thoughts at least
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Re: Rules Update: Faith and Churches

Postby Luke » Thu Mar 12, 2015 3:02 pm

@ Dom, not sure on domain changes personally, Asternia protects the world from Velnashar (the Suns) rays, she has a very defense based back story. She has just been interpretted as aggressive in light of there being no other holy warrior (Hope was it once) type God.

Going to leave it for Ben.
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Re: Rules Update: Faith and Churches

Postby Dellam » Thu Mar 12, 2015 3:16 pm

Luke: Yeah I just took on that holy warrior aspect thing for her sicne there isn't really a godly niche for that. I'm happy to leave as is of course, its your call after all :) Just throwing ideas up in the air.

Oh and what about Spiter? Goddess of cunning, strategy and projectile weapons (since shes very much a thing)
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Re: Rules Update: Faith and Churches

Postby Hatsuo1980 » Thu Mar 12, 2015 3:18 pm

Dellam wrote:Luke: Yeah I just took on that holy warrior aspect thing for her sicne there isn't really a godly niche for that. I'm happy to leave as is of course, its your call after all :) Just throwing ideas up in the air.


Incorrect. Any god Edd follows as a goodly character has the "fascist holy warrior" thing covered :)
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Re: Rules Update: Faith and Churches

Postby Luke » Thu Mar 12, 2015 3:47 pm

Rules have been updated. Go take a look. I have also alphabetised the Gods (we have a lot beginning with L).

Thanks for your suggestions (keep them coming) and big thanks to Andy H for his in-depth changes which I have mostly followed.

I've also updated the information at the start to be a little bit more comprehensive.

Some of the newer players (Max et al), I would really appreciate your feedback on the original post so I can make sure it is clear to members who aren't old and dogged like me ;)
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Re: Rules Update: Faith and Churches

Postby xochiquetzal » Wed Mar 18, 2015 9:54 pm

Luke wrote:Rules have been updated. Go take a look. I have also alphabetised the Gods (we have a lot beginning with L).
Some of the newer players (Max et al), I would really appreciate your feedback on the original post so I can make sure it is clear to members who aren't old and dogged like me ;)


I am Max, and I speak for the et al because I don't think any of them bother with reading about the rules updates - they just wait for me to read it and then tell them. :lol: Anyway, I read the faith stuff, and it seems to make sense. One thing, though, it says that you get favours depending on the maximum faith in one god. However, for example my character, has 2 faith in Lenamo and 1 faith in Quaos. Wouldn't it make more sense for him to get access to 2 favours a day for life and death, and 1 favour a day for either evil or destruction? So you get favours for the different domains depending on your faith in the gods of those domain. That would only apply to characters with faith in multiple gods, but I think that it makes sense (although it might not, I don't always make myself very clear). If it doesn't make sense then I think I may be able to rewrite it in a better way.
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Re: Rules Update: Faith and Churches

Postby Luke » Wed Mar 18, 2015 10:45 pm

Hi Max,

Yeah it's something I was thinking about. My worry is that it makes dual faith very strong, and I don't want people to strive for it.

Otherwise those with Faith 4 in 2 gods will have 8 favour, which seems a bit over the top!

But I have no strong feelings on this - anyone else have any thoughts? Happy to change it if the majority agree!
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